Unfortunately in the street neither will be very effective unless its a 1 on 1 thing. I have seen some judo blackbelts who have great submissions and are probably around the purple belt level in BJJ all off of Judo training.
If you cant afford BJJ classes try dvd instructionals and a grappling dummy or trying it out on your judo friends.
Judo instead of BJJ (unfortunately)..................
i'll only be excited to learn the newaza part of Judo as from what i have seen in randori Judo throws absolutely WILL NOT work @ all in a real street fight. the sensei even struggles against white and green belts. i have sat in on a few several sessions and noticed this. while @ the same time i noticed everybody tapping everybody out in a few BJJ sessions @ another location and was impressed. its DEFINITELY easier to defeat someone on the ground than it is to throw them no question. its a real bummer because i REALLY wanted to do BJJ after witnessing how ineffective in the streets Judo has the potential to be but BJJ was too expensive. so i figure all i'll get out of this is improved conditioning @ the least. im convinced the throws wont work in a real fight i have sat in on ENOUGH sessions.
- I don't like Judo that much, no offense, and I do BJJ but you have to realize that in a street situation if you go down into a grappling match against someone, their buddy is probably going to stomp the hell out of you. And you get scrapped up rolling with someone on the street. Hitting your head on concrete is not like hitting your head on a mat.51
- Maybe you're choosing a martial art for the wrong reasons41
- Listen, listen...
Martial arts for street fights are like knives in gun fights. A bad idea.
No martial art is effective in a street fight, because martial arts, as we know them, are defined by strict limits to the kind of violence you're dealing with (Mainly unarmed combats, with some school offering some very limited techniques for dealing with armed opponents).
Forget about martial arts for street-fighting. In fact, it would be better if you forgot about street-fighting altogether. It's an anti-social, illegal activity. Nothing glamorous about it.
Your ground game might look cool, until you encounter a guy that really is not playing and you're going to get seriously hurt. You can't assume it's going to be one on one either.
The real way to deal with street fights is learning not to get in them and that is quite easy, really. Most people never have to worry about it.30
When an instructor works out with new/junior students, of course he won't go all out, and he'll cut the new guys a lot of slack. If he didn't, the new kids wouldn't learn anything from it. And come on, you SAT through several sessions, in one dojo. Do you really think you know enough to correctly judge how an effective any particular art is? And when training submissions, joint locks, etc. in ANY art, of course you tap out when you feel the lock/pin/submission clicking in. Again, have you actually tried going through a typical BJJ training session instead of simply looking at it?
And second, grappling on the ground is never a good idea "on the streets"; you will be inviting your opponent's buddies to do some really nasty things while you're busy. Heck, you could fall on a rusty nail or broken glass and cut yourself open...
If you prefer BJJ over judo, then fine, many people do. But it's another thing to bad-mouth one art when you have no experience whatsoever in it.40
- At the dojo i go to, we have Olympic Judo or gi Judo every Monday and Wednesday with newaza at the last 20 minutes or so. He usually doesn't normally teach us newaza moves on those days. Tuesday is no-gi Judo with both no-gi throws and no-gi locks and chokes. Thursday is pure newaza. I don't know about your coach if he/she does that teach no-gi judo but saying its useless is stupid. I could easily defend myself with the no-gi judo. But i dont plan on getting in that situation.
The coach is at least a 3rd Dan in Judo with 15plus years so he/she will go easy on white and green belts with 1-4 years experience.
Also BJJ comes from Judo. The Gracie founders were like 7th Dan in Judo.20
- My aikido teacher made a good point about move effectiveness. There's no such thing as "realistic" training. Training that's 100% realistic would be too dangerous. Since I don't see what you see with your Judo instructor (and from what you describe, I might question too) you might want to make sure first you don't have unrealistic expectations about training. Not even BJJ training will be 100% realistic!
As a black belt in karate and a white belt in aikido, it really drives me nuts when a kid who has only been training for a few months suddenly believes they have the authority to say what does and doesn't work. Borrowing a Bible phrase, we learn "line upon line, precept upon precept." And white belts and green belts tend to be the hardest to throw anyway.
Remember, whether you are throwing, or being thrown, you're practicing something. It might look like a black belt is easily thrown when in a real street fight, taking a fall might avoid more injury.00
- Take no offense to this, but your question is ridiculous
1. (unfortunately)..................?- Judo has been practiced as an effective from of self defense by civilians, police and military throughout the world for over 100 years, does BJJ have that track record?
2.i'll only be excited to learn the newaza part of Judo as from what i have seen in randori Judo throws absolutely WILL NOT work - How do plan on getting someone into position for newaza? Throws, trips, sweeps are better in most situations than "groundfighting". I would trust a lot of throws and almost any sweep over a double leg takedown in an actual fight.
3.the sensei even struggles against white and green belts.- He is probally trying to teach them how to "feel" during randori.
4.its DEFINITELY easier to defeat someone on the ground than it is to throw them no question. - How are you going to get them to the ground? Defeat someone under what circumstances, punching, knife, 3on1?
5.i REALLY wanted to do BJJ after witnessing how ineffective in the streets Judo has the potential to be - No offense, but how would you know? Some people get Concealed Carry Permits to carry pistols after witnessing how ineffective in the streets BJJ has the potential to be.
There are situations to grapple and situations not to. Unless you are a law enforcement officer or security, grappling is probally not your best bet in a violent situation. Either way in situations like this the less time on the ground the better, even better if you can put him down and you still stay up or end the situation without having to go that route.
PS If that is your attitude then I wont even bother with it. If you have such bias I doubt the Sensei can effectively teach you. From the sounds of it you already have the ideation of what is best for you to do in these situations, so why waste your money having people teach you stuff that isnt up to your standards?30
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